Discussion:
Maintaining sbase
(too old to reply)
Galos, David
2013-06-24 16:17:40 UTC
Permalink
I've been watching the slcon talks as they appear on youtube, and I
noticed that sbase was looking for a maintainer. I'd be happy to start
maintaining it.

As for the not-yet-in-place philosophy of the project, I see as far as
keeping any system-specific stuff out. So, modprobe/ifconfig/nldev
wouldn't have a place there, but I could see including sltar, and
similar projects. The system-specific stuff could easily all be lumped
together into some kind of linuxutils, bsdutils, so forth.

Speeking of nldev, it seems very interesting, and I'd love to get all
that udev/systemd crap off my system, but that's for another email.

Dave
Markus Teich
2013-06-24 20:15:34 UTC
Permalink
What is your opinion on a shell for sbase?

--Markus
Post by Galos, David
I've been watching the slcon talks as they appear on youtube, and I
noticed that sbase was looking for a maintainer. I'd be happy to start
maintaining it.
As for the not-yet-in-place philosophy of the project, I see as far as
keeping any system-specific stuff out. So, modprobe/ifconfig/nldev
wouldn't have a place there, but I could see including sltar, and
similar projects. The system-specific stuff could easily all be lumped
together into some kind of linuxutils, bsdutils, so forth.
Speeking of nldev, it seems very interesting, and I'd love to get all
that udev/systemd crap off my system, but that's for another email.
Dave
Christian Neukirchen
2013-06-24 21:32:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Markus Teich
What is your opinion on a shell for sbase?
I had a look at dash, which is sh-compatible and fairly small, and the
code did not look half as bad as I expected it to be.
--
Christian Neukirchen <***@gmail.com> http://chneukirchen.org
pmarin
2013-06-25 09:17:58 UTC
Permalink
dash has a broken builtin echo command and they are not interested in
fix it. I think busybox ash fixed the problem.

dash> echo '\tshit'
shit
ash> echo '\tshit'
\tshit

On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 11:32 PM, Christian Neukirchen
Post by Christian Neukirchen
Post by Markus Teich
What is your opinion on a shell for sbase?
I had a look at dash, which is sh-compatible and fairly small, and the
code did not look half as bad as I expected it to be.
--
Christian Neukirchen
2013-06-25 10:01:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by pmarin
dash has a broken builtin echo command and they are not interested in
fix it. I think busybox ash fixed the problem.
dash> echo '\tshit'
shit
ash> echo '\tshit'
\tshit
That is bad indeed. Know any other problems?
--
Christian Neukirchen <***@gmail.com> http://chneukirchen.org
Chris Down
2013-06-25 10:22:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Christian Neukirchen
Post by pmarin
dash has a broken builtin echo command and they are not interested in
fix it. I think busybox ash fixed the problem.
dash> echo '\tshit'
shit
ash> echo '\tshit'
\tshit
That is bad indeed. Know any other problems?
It lacks in almost every way that you would want from a
user-customisable REPL environment. If you want a sane alternative,
try mksh.
Thorsten Glaser
2013-06-25 10:54:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris Down
try mksh.
FWIW, mksh has three different =E2=80=9Cecho=E2=80=9D; if invoked as mksh, =
it uses
a BSD echo by default which does interpret backslashes, but if one
uses set -o posix (or invokes it as sh or -sh and it is compiled
with -DMKSH_BINSHPOSIX (CVS HEAD)) it has an echo that only honours
-n as first argument and doesn=E2=80=99t do anything else (Debian Policy =
=C2=A710.4).

bye,
//mirabilos
--=20
[DJBDNS Zone] TTL 86400 =E2=80=93 <Natureshadow> kann man da auch 1d schrei=
ben?
<mirabilos> n=C3=B6, au=C3=9Ferdem kann ein Deutscher oder ein Japaner mit =
1d
ja erstmal nix anfangen, oder k=C3=B6nntest du 1=E6=97=A5 im zone file =
lesen?
<Natureshadow> das hei=C3=9Ft f=C3=BCr mich: ein Regal, das u.U. schiefsteh=
en k=C3=B6nnte
Christian Neukirchen
2013-06-25 11:02:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris Down
Post by Christian Neukirchen
Post by pmarin
dash has a broken builtin echo command and they are not interested in
fix it. I think busybox ash fixed the problem.
dash> echo '\tshit'
shit
ash> echo '\tshit'
\tshit
That is bad indeed. Know any other problems?
It lacks in almost every way that you would want from a
user-customisable REPL environment.
I'm not trying to find a interactive shell.
--
Christian Neukirchen <***@gmail.com> http://chneukirchen.org
markus schnalke
2013-06-25 12:04:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Christian Neukirchen
Post by Chris Down
Post by Christian Neukirchen
Post by pmarin
dash has a broken builtin echo command and they are not interested in
fix it. I think busybox ash fixed the problem.
dash> echo '\tshit'
shit
ash> echo '\tshit'
\tshit
That is bad indeed. Know any other problems?
It lacks in almost every way that you would want from a
user-customisable REPL environment.
I'm not trying to find a interactive shell.
AFAIK dash was never meant to be an interactive shell.


meillo
Galos, David
2013-06-25 12:58:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Markus Teich
What is your opinion on a shell for sbase?
The shell is a topic around which there is far too much religion.
Sbase should not include a shell.
Carlos Torres
2013-06-25 14:10:12 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, Jun 25, 2013 at 8:58 AM, Galos, David
Post by Galos, David
Post by Markus Teich
What is your opinion on a shell for sbase?
The shell is a topic around which there is far too much religion.
Sbase should not include a shell.
:) i like this answer
Calvin Morrison
2013-06-25 14:17:06 UTC
Permalink
why not rc?
Post by Carlos Torres
On Tue, Jun 25, 2013 at 8:58 AM, Galos, David
Post by Galos, David
Post by Markus Teich
What is your opinion on a shell for sbase?
The shell is a topic around which there is far too much religion.
Sbase should not include a shell.
:) i like this answer
Jesse Ogle
2013-06-25 14:42:50 UTC
Permalink
I understood sbase to have a loose correspondence to coreutils. Is
this the case? Coreutils does not have a shell, or am I wrong about
that?

Jesse

On Tue, Jun 25, 2013 at 10:17 AM, Calvin Morrison
Post by Calvin Morrison
why not rc?
Post by Carlos Torres
On Tue, Jun 25, 2013 at 8:58 AM, Galos, David
Post by Galos, David
Post by Markus Teich
What is your opinion on a shell for sbase?
The shell is a topic around which there is far too much religion.
Sbase should not include a shell.
:) i like this answer
Chris Down
2013-06-25 14:45:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jesse Ogle
I understood sbase to have a loose correspondence to coreutils. Is
this the case? Coreutils does not have a shell, or am I wrong about
that?
GNU coreutils has no shell, it is packaged separately (as GNU bash).
Calvin Morrison
2013-06-25 14:53:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris Down
Post by Jesse Ogle
I understood sbase to have a loose correspondence to coreutils. Is
this the case? Coreutils does not have a shell, or am I wrong about
that?
GNU coreutils has no shell, it is packaged separately (as GNU bash).
Are we determining ourselves based upon GNU, instead of what is
logical or better?

first of all, some things in moreutils would be awesome
Daniel Bryan
2013-06-25 14:54:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Calvin Morrison
first of all, some things in moreutils would be awesome
Especially if they weren't written in Perl.
Calvin Morrison
2013-06-25 14:58:04 UTC
Permalink
my votes are for at a minimum are for:

sponge
tee
pee
Post by Daniel Bryan
Post by Calvin Morrison
first of all, some things in moreutils would be awesome
Especially if they weren't written in Perl.
Martti Kühne
2013-06-25 21:18:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Calvin Morrison
sponge
tee
pee
And a cloth to clean up the mess...
Strake
2013-06-26 03:43:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Martti Kühne
Post by Calvin Morrison
sponge
tee
pee
And a cloth to clean up the mess...
No, that's what sponge is for.
Martti Kühne
2013-06-27 06:33:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Strake
Post by Martti Kühne
[...]
pee
And a cloth to clean up the mess...
No, that's what sponge is for.
Still. What's pee good for? A quick google disappointed my
expectations in that matter.

cheers!
mar77i
Chris Down
2013-06-27 06:43:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Martti Kühne
Still. What's pee good for? A quick google disappointed my
expectations in that matter.
It's for people that don't know how to use FIFOs/process substitution
properly ;-)
Calvin Morrison
2013-06-27 15:03:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris Down
Post by Martti Kühne
Still. What's pee good for? A quick google disappointed my
expectations in that matter.
It's for people that don't know how to use FIFOs/process substitution
properly ;-)
should suffice:

cat file | tee >(sort -u > sorted) >(sort -R > unsorted)
Fernando C.V.
2013-06-29 01:51:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Calvin Morrison
Post by Chris Down
It's for people that don't know how to use FIFOs/process substitution
properly ;-)
cat file | tee >(sort -u > sorted) >(sort -R > unsorted)
That's a bashism, not POSIX. Not much better than using pee

--
Fernando Carmona Varo
Calvin Morrison
2013-06-29 02:28:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fernando C.V.
Post by Calvin Morrison
Post by Chris Down
It's for people that don't know how to use FIFOs/process substitution
properly ;-)
cat file | tee >(sort -u > sorted) >(sort -R > unsorted)
That's a bashism, not POSIX. Not much better than using pee
--
Fernando Carmona Varo
and who said that POSIX is the only way? frankly I find a shell that
supports decent pipe managment to be a suckless thing, but something
that sucks. It turks into suck when you need a utility to do what your
shell should be doing.

Markus Teich
2013-06-25 14:52:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jesse Ogle
I understood sbase to have a loose correspondence to coreutils. Is
this the case? Coreutils does not have a shell, or am I wrong about
that?
I don't think „Everyone is doing it this way“ is a valid argument in
any discussion.


On Tue, Jun 25, 2013 at 8:58 AM, Galos, David
Post by Jesse Ogle
The shell is a topic around which there is far too much religion.
Sbase should not include a shell.
This however is a good argument.

--Markus
hiro
2013-06-25 15:08:01 UTC
Permalink
busybox ash.
Nick
2013-06-25 10:58:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by pmarin
dash has a broken builtin echo command and they are not interested in
fix it. I think busybox ash fixed the problem.
Is it really broken? I got the impression from [0] that echo was so
badly specified that one shouldn't trust it to do much at all,
though I confess I haven't read the specs; maybe it's just mis-
implemented widely.

0. http://www.etalabs.net/sh_tricks.html
Anselm R Garbe
2013-06-28 19:51:04 UTC
Permalink
Hi David,
Post by Galos, David
I've been watching the slcon talks as they appear on youtube, and I
noticed that sbase was looking for a maintainer. I'd be happy to start
maintaining it.
You are very welcome. Please send me you ssh pubkey to my gmail
address and I will set up an account for you.

Best regards,
Anselm
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